David @ Tokyo

a suggestion:
your constant 誤字 of 半 instead of 反 detracts from the content of your Japanese post, so I would politely advise you to take a bit more care if you want to keep the interest of Japanese readers.

two comments:
1. your patronising remark about people falsely believing whales are in danger of extinction is not backed by any evidence and a short review of whaling and whale stocks post-2nd world war would reveal how misleading you are being.
2. yes, natural resources are ALL finite, with the possible exception of sunlight (for timescales meaningful to humans). we cannot continue exploiting the soil, rivers, aquifers, hydrocarbon deposits, minerals, biomass forever based on our current model of exponetial growth. the growth must end somewhere or else it is unsustainable by definition.

a question:
what does japan want to do with all the whales it covets? force kids to eat them in their school lunches, like in the 60s and 70s?
 

anonymous,

It would have been polite of you to have commented on this post in Japanese language. Not to worry though. But I thank you for henkan checking my Japanese. It's truely appreciated, I assure you. I have fixed the offending mistakes.

1) Regarding whaling in the Antarctic, none of the minke whale, humpback whale or fin whale species are in realistic danger of extinction.

And indeed, evidence does indeed support this. The minke whale in particular is believed to be more populous today than prior to industrial whaling in the Antarctic.

The humpback species is recognised to be increasing rapidly - the IWC Scientific Committee has just released a new estimate putting numbers at more than 40,000 in the Antarctic during the austral summer. 25 years ago, the estimate was only around 7,000. This is a species that is rebounding strongly. Strong growth in numbers is forecast to continue.

Given such scientific evidence (which I assume you are aware of) and the fact that the numbers of whales that Japan is planning to take does not even approach a single percentage point of the sizes of estimated abundance, I find myself having to question the grounds on which you consider my statements to be "misleading".

It's particularly difficult to understand your criticism given that you have provided no concrete criticism or logical argument to support your point of view.

2) The whole idea is not to continually increase our use of whales past the point that is sustainable. You talk about exponential growth - yet today the Japanese population is decreasing. There simply isn't the need to overhunt whales anymore like in the days when people were slaughtering for nothing more than their oil.
Humans today are more than capable of ensuring that whale consumption remains at conservative, sustainable levels.

Your question is somewhat bemusing. A few years back, all I'd ever hear about whale meat was that it was a delicacy enjoyed by rich Japanese salarymen in sushi bars. Apparently this form of abuse didn't have any effect, so these days the approach is to imply that school children are being forced to eat whale meat against their will. What do you suppose the poor school children be forced to eat instead? Beef imports from the US or Australia?

I look forward to more well-considered comments from you in future.
 

anonymous-san,

I do not offend you but...

> I would politely advise you to >take a bit more care if you want >to keep the interest of Japanese >readers.

Though David-san appreciate you,If you are a Japanese,I think you have to consider David-san is not a Japanese but a Newzealander.
Think when you post some comments and you might sometimes find some mistakes.Or are you always perfect?

>It's particularly difficult to >understand your criticism given >that you have provided no >concrete criticism or logical >argument to support your point of >view.

I entirely agree with David-san.
Before anonymous-san criticizes
something,I would politely advise you to take a bit more care of it.


Y/H(Japan)
 

hello anon2様,

i posted the first comment. please do not assume i am japanese. fyi, i am a new zealander, too.

i was not criticising David's Japanese, nor did i imply he should't make mistakes. neither did i make fun of him or imply i am perfect. it is you that has decided to embark on an ad hom attack, which is rather unfortunate and reveals more about you than anyone else.

i merely pointed out his 誤字 and suggested more care in editing his own posts would enhance their readability.

in (partial) reply to David:

i never mentioned expensive sushi restaurants, so this is just a red herring (straw man?) rather than a reply.

it seems you are unaware of some of the major uses of whale meat were in Japan leading up to the early 80s. many people i know who went to school in the 60s and 70s had whale meat served in their 給食 and it completely put them off the idea of whale meat for life. media reports recently suggest the growing stockpile of unsold whale meat, which is a "by-product" of the lethal "scientific" whaling program, is going to end up in catered meals in schools, hospitals and the like. why? because there's no "real" market for whale meat. this is not an industry based on "market economics" but politics. the bulk of "consumers" of whale meat, as in the past, will have no choice in the matter when it is served.
so, i ask once more, what are all these whales going to be used for? please show me the market.

p.s. sorry about not commenting in Japanese, i'm just not really up to it at the moment, but maybe another day.
 

hello anon1様,

Thank you for reply to my comments.

I am sorry I misunderstand you.
I supposed you are a Japanese because you had knowledge of Japanese language.

Some anti-whaling groups often
point the henkan mistakes as
a way of harassment.

I was sometimes vexed :-)

Y/H (Japan)
 

kiwi anon,

Let's see if we can stick to the topic, rather than helping each other out with our language skills, and accusing others of flinging around ad hominems.

Acknowledging that you have given me a (partial) reply, I'd like to first say that I'm looking forward to your justification for deeming the nature of a remark, about people being falsely led to believe that whales are in danger of extinction, as "patronising".

I'm more than happy to discuss whale abundance estimates, natural rates of increase, the size of anthropogenic removals, etc, for the species in question. Certainly, if I have overlooked something, and any of the whale species may indeed be in real danger of extinction, then I'd like you to bring me up to speed.

I assume that you did not use the word "patronising" lightly, without having a concrete reason for doing so. I thus continue to look forward to reading your thoughts on this matter.

As for your question, I never said you mentioned expensive sushi restaurants - I said that in previous years people would always argue that whale meat is a luxury treat for rich salarymen (indeed, some people still do mention this). Your question is amusing because it gives the impression that nobody (or hardly anybody at best) enjoys the taste of whale meat. That is all. Most kiwis have a good sense of humour, so I'm sure you can recognise the irony.

As for the "stockpile", it's worth considering some facts, in addition to annecdotes.

1) At it's peak post-WWII, the Japanese population apparently consumed 230,000 tonnes of whale meat in a single year.

2) In 1980, with sources of whale meat in decline, the stockpile stood at 22,000 tonnes. Since the introduction of the commercial whaling moratorium supply has been heavily reduced, the stockpile decreased greatly, and consequently whale meat supply chains died off. Supply was down to less than 2,000 tonnes during the initial years of research whaling.

3) This year the "stockpile" reportedly stood at around 6,000 tonnes, just after the return of of the JARPA II fleet, which added 3,400 tonnes of that.

4) The JARPA II programme which had it's initial expedition last summer increased in scope compared to JARPA which means more than double the supply of by-products. Supply from the JARPN II programmes has also increased in recent years. Figures have suggested that supply is now back to around 5,500 tonnes each year.

Now, thousands of tonnes of extra whale meat does not walk around and market itself.

Supply chains need to be reestablished.

This is why a new company was established this year specifically for the purpose. Is this new company going to succeed? I don't know, but given that supply was once as high as 230,000 tonnes in a single year, I think one would be a fool to write off the potential for increased consumption. I'd not be surprised if minke whale steak appealed more to some Japanese consumers than beef from the US, given reports in the news media recently. That said, I've not done market research on the potential demand for whale meat, and ultimately, it's none of my business whether the venture succeeds or fails, anyway.

At the end of the day, what I care about is whether or not the activity is sustainable.

And, unless you have new information to show me that I have somehow missed, it seems that there is nothing usustainable about whaling at all.
 

＞農業に依存してきた人なら、「持続的利用、捕りすぎないこと」をあまり考えなくて済んできたわです。島で発展した文化を持った人は、その余裕はうらやましかったでしょう。

日本は、農業に依存していたから”持続的な利用”を考えてこなかったというのは誤りではないかと思います。
なぜなら、農業でも永遠に同じ畑で物を作ることができないからです。畑に含まれる窒素やリン、カリウムの補給が必要になります。
昔は畑の肥料のために焼畑をして森林がなくなっていきます。
日本は昔から農業をやっていますが、その辺を熟知していて、牛の糞や人糞を使って”持続的な利用”をしてきました。
日本は資源が少なく、小さな国なのでどのようなものでも大切にするという文化が生まれたのです。だから、欧米が捕鯨をしても油だけしか利用しないのに比べて、日本では鯨は余す所がないと言われるくらい利用してきました。
 

鯨だけを擁護して生かすということは、バランスが崩れて、自然に多大な影響をおよばします。
取っていい量いるので、とっているのであって絶滅危惧種になる恐れのあるものは、もちろん取りません。論外です
それに今日本で鯨を食べてるのはほんの一部ですよ。僕もいまだに食べたこと無いです。
外国で捕鯨の事で講義している人がたくさんいますが、講義することはかまわないと思ってます。でも講義のやり方がフェアじゃないって思う。
 

子供のころ、朝ごはんのおかずとして鯨のベーコンをよく食べていました。母がフライパンで焼いてくれて、熱々のところへソースをかけて食べていました。鯨のベーコンはあぶらがあっておいしかった。私の好きなおかずでした。もう一度食べたいと思うこともありますが、私が大人になってからは、どこのお店にも鯨肉を売っているのを見たことがありません。あのベーコンの味は忘れたことがない。両親とともに暮らし、幸せだった子供のころの懐かしい味の記憶です。

David@Tokyoさんのブログをお借りして申しわけありませんが、これを読む中にもし捕鯨反対の人がいたら、私の子供時代の幸せな朝ごはんのことをどうか知っておいてもらいたいと思い、ここに書き込ませていただきました。
 

ニュージーランドに住んでいるにもかかわらず、このような論理を持つことができるあなたに尊敬の意を表します。
実は、ほとんどの日本人が鯨を食べたがっている訳ではありません。
戦後６０年、謙虚に謝り続け、世界各国に多額の支援金をし続け、no big mouth で自国同様他国を尊重し正々堂々生活してきました。
自国の借金が限界にもかかわらず・・。
しかし、今現在、北朝鮮問題を初め、益々過激になる日本への圧力。危機管理問題が騒がれてきているのです。
戦後初めて、「核を持ち込むべきかどうか」「公の軍隊を持つべきではないか？」と議論がなされるようになりました。
そんな今、オーストラリアの考えられないパッシングがクローズアップされているのです。
「我々の美しい動物」と世界に訴えかけ、TVCMで日本人を殺し、器物破損、人的被害、あげくの果てに国は軍隊を出すと言う。
No日本の伝統、No科学的根拠、kill japaneses...
果たして怒らない国があるのだろうか？
私はそういう背景を書かせてもらいました。
正々堂々とした日本国民の怒りはもう限界に近い。
 

最近のオーストラリア、ニュージーランドなどの日本人差別に対して、日本では怒りの意見がほとんどです。
なぜ今まで自国が何千年、何万年も前から続けてきた文化を否定されなければならないのか。
そもそも鯨の個体数が減ったのは欧米人による燃料確保のためであるにも関わらず、ずっと持続的に捕鯨をして、個体数にも危機的影響を及ぼさない日本が攻められるのか分かりません。

あまり宗教観がない日本では、キリスト教の聖書におけるキリスト教信者の主張ははっきり言って根拠のないものにしか見えないし、鯨の個体数が増えすぎることは、生体系において鯨の下にいる魚の減少に直結します。
ただ鯨は可愛いから、知能が高いから、などということは全く理由にならない。
今やっている反捕鯨はただの日本人に対するレイシズムであり、私はそのような理由で不当に日本が非難されることは我慢できません。

最後に、反捕鯨意見が強い国で、自分の意見をはっきりと述べて下さっている貴方に感謝の意を述べさせていただきます。
本当にありがとうございます。
 

コメントありがとうございます。
残念ながら、レイシズムは確かに関係している気がしてなりません。